Curse

Yanman.be · Aug 09, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I love the build.

I will never run it.

Arkantos · Aug 10, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kern Wolf

Plenty of reasons for a warrior to use fire spells.
Could it be that you can't think of any?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I meant to say a skillbar of them

Not very fond of reading before posting?

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

No, I consider your skillbar a joke.

Have you played AB battles? If so you must be one of those guys that flock to the middle and try to take everyone down while other people are going around and actually trying to take shrines, no doubt cursing you all the while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I meant to say a skillbar of them

If you actually read my post, which considering what I've seen from other people on this board I can't just assume that you have. Then I gave a perfect reason why to use them. As I said I wouldn't use them outside of AB battles as you have too much downtime with it. However, it’s perfect if you actually know what you are doing in AB battles. You and the other guy may think it’s a joke, but I don't think you guys do AB battles. And if you have then you must not do a lot of them. And if you do I feel sorry for your teammates.

Livingston

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimyd

This build is decent but can be stopped 110% in its tracks with this 1 build im using.

Here's the 2 skills i'll give you.

Malaise
Wither.

Luxons hate me very much.

Those 2 skills stacked on 1 target renders any player that is mana intensive pretty useless.

Any build that can be created can be stopped dead in its tracks by another build tailored to stop it. Its called game balance and is something Anet works very hard to maintain.

Livingston

Arkantos · Aug 10, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

If you actually read my post, which considering what I've seen from other people on this board I can't just assume that you have. Then I gave a perfect reason why to use them. As I said I wouldn't use them outside of AB battles as you have too much downtime with it. However, it’s perfect if you actually know what you are doing in AB battles. You and the other guy may think it’s a joke, but I don't think you guys do AB battles. And if you have then you must not do a lot of them. And if you do I feel sorry for your teammates.

1) Yeah, I actually do AB.
2) Have you ever seen me play? No, you havent. So how do you know what my teammates think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

Any build that can be created can be stopped dead in its tracks by another build tailored to stop it. Its called game balance and is something Anet works very hard to maintain.

If your warrior has no monk with hex removal, your useless.

PS: Edit button ftw.

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

How do you deal with exhaustion using this build? The 15/-1 is a temporary fix at best. Alliance Battles require you to move from shrine to shrine quickly in order to cap as many as you can. With this build, you can cap one, but are pretty much out of energy after that. I think this build would work if you're aiming for stealth, capping unguarded shrines, but probably not so good if there're human players involved.

I only have two skills that give me exhaustion and with the low energy I have it doesn't take long for me to get rid of it. It is true that I have no energy after capping the shrine. However, I have to sit there and wait for the opposing teams energy to run out of the shrine, then I have to wait for my team’s energy to fill up the shrine, before the shrine is ours. Then I have whatever time it takes for me to get to the next shrine. And 9 times out of ten its back.

This build is specifically made to solo take a shrine, so of course I’m looking for undefended shrines, but I never have problems finding 2-3 at any given time. Due to the nature of the battle and being stuck with 2 teams that you don't get to pick, there is very little organization between the three teams on your side, so no is every guarding all the shrines, and even if there were enough organization, it would be impossible for 3 teams of 4 to effectively guard seven shrines, as one team of four on the other side would simply sweep through and take them one by one.

The people that play these battles are so predictable that at any given time I usally know exactly where everyone on the other team is by simply keeping track of which shrines are going up and down between the teams, and what I can visually see on the terrain. The only thing that would mess me up is if someone on the other team made it their specific job to follow me around and stop me from taking shrines. This never happens.

No one ever targets a warrior for constant grief, because it takes too long to take one down compared to other classes, and you get more points the more people you kill and thus it would be more "cost effective" to grief another profession.

This does happen to me quite often when I play a full elementalist. Assassins love to choose one squishy class to constantly hound and kill them again and again, because it works. With the down time of having to wait for your corpse to resurrect, then running back to the battle from wherever you happen to rez to, the assassin has had time to do plenty of other things in the meantime, and as soon as you're back he take 30 secs or less to take you down again.

Anyone who does try to tarrget me I simply nuke them one or two times or use charge and run back to the base for 30 secs, and they give up.

In most cases I don't have to use the 15 -1 adjustment. As I said, I solo shrines so of course I target shrines that aren't defended, which I always have plenty to chose from. If someone shows up after I start nuking a shrine, I do what I said I do in the OP.

It’s a rare occasion that one person at a shrine will stop me from taking it. Usually it will be a toucher that stops me, so if I see a R/N at a shrine I stay the hell away.

In most AB that I take part in I go to one shrine, nuke it, wait for the shrine to depower, power the shrine up for my side, run to the next, unless its a very close shrine, my energy is back to full with no exhaustion, and I repeat. If it is a very close shrine, I might have to wait 5 secs or so then I repeat.

The only time I ever lose battles when I am doing this is if the rest of the people in my team are simply running to the middle and trying to kill as many of the other side as they can instead of trying to capture shrines, which simply doesn't work as you get heaps more points for having shrines then you do for killing other PCs.

Some of the guys on here can try to make fun of it, but this isn't a hypothetical build. It is a well-tested build and it works. I know it works because I use it and I win on a regular basis. And I know its not due to simply being on a team that would have won anyway as I pay attention to the shrines that I collect and I know that we would not have won had I not been doing what I am doing.

If some of you think that it’s a joke build, then you simply aren't good enough to use it yourself. Because there is no other build you can make that you could possibly do what I do faster, as it only takes me one skill chain to take down the entire shrine, and I can do it again and again at each shrine. You could possibly make a build that has less trouble when others show up, or that doesn't have a 5 sec down time if you run to a shrine that’s very close next, but all these things are very trivial if you have any semblance of stratedgy know how. That and the fact that I didn't make this build specifically to be the best at AB conflicts, this is simply my PvE character that I have speced to be the best it can be in AB and it's simply awesome even compared to anything else that I could come up with independently.

If some of you truly think that its a joke, then post a W/E build that can solo a shrine faster than mine. If you can't, then you have nothing to say against this build that's worth the post space.

Livingston

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If your warrior has no monk with hex removal, your useless.

And why exactly is that? I don't need a monk and I certainly don't need one with hex removal. I don't have any problems with hexes, and it certainly doesn't stop me from taking shrines. So define your meaning of useless.

Livingston

Arkantos · Aug 10, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

And why exactly is that? I don't need a monk and I certainly don't need one with hex removal. I don't have any problems with hexes, and it certainly doesn't stop me from taking shrines. So define your meaning of useless.

Livingston

I was talking about against the malaise+wither combo. If you have those on you, the only thing you can do is take shrines, nothing offensive.

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I was talking about against the malaise+wither combo. If you have those on you, the only thing you can do is take shrines, nothing offensive.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.

I never claimed it wouldn't shut me down. A toucher can shut me down as well rather easily. But as I said any build can be shut down by another build designed to shut it down, and in most cases there will simply be builds that aren't actually desgined to do so, but can do so none the less rather easy.

Livingston

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 10, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Ele = can max out fire to 16, to maximize damage, and has a huge mana bar, and sides a e/xx that dueled in fire and earth could tank and do more damage then this thing, no offense, armor of earth+obsidian flesh, maybe the armor taht rejuvinates every 5 seconds if you cast spell, on an ele would tank better then this, and also get off more damage, also they have 4 pips and like i said above sentence, ungodly amount of energy to maintain these skills, many reasony why simple 16 fire magic ele would be superior to this thing

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaero Gouki Kriegor

Ele = can max out fire to 16, to maximize damage, and has a huge mana bar, and sides a e/xx that dueled in fire and earth could tank and do more damage then this thing, no offense, armor of earth+obsidian flesh, maybe the armor taht rejuvinates every 5 seconds if you cast spell, on an ele would tank better then this, and also get off more damage, also they have 4 pips and like i said above sentence, ungodly amount of energy to maintain these skills, many reasony why simple 16 fire magic ele would be superior to this thing

I said a W/E build that would be better.

And though an elementalist will do more damage, the damage done by this build does enough to kill the shrine, so that's all the damage you need. Anything else is simply over kill.

Also as I explained above, if an ele primary is soloing and PCs show up their pretty much screwed, as if they continue focusing on the shrine then they are going to die as they don't have much health to keep them alive against any type of degen, and if they turn around to face the PCs they are just wasting time as the shrine isn't being taken and there's a good chance they will die anyway, as the NPCs will be healing themselves and taking you down as well.

My build can defend itself very well while I continue to take the shrine and then can escape effectively once its down. I can't take the shrine at that time, but I can either move on to the next one (recommended unless there aren't any close ones) or wait the usual 10 seconds for the PC to go somewhere else as the smart ones know they are wasting time just sitting on a shrine that is already theirs that has no NPCs when they could be out capturing more, unless they have all of them already, in which case I'm moving on the next shrine. But since I was able to take down the NPCs anyone else from my team that comes by will definitely take it since it doesn't have any NPCs guarding it, or it will be waiting for me to come back to and take after I've taken my next shrine.

Also as I said in OP, solo eles are easy marks when running from one shrine to another. People tend to ignore warriors running around as they don't think they can solo a shrine fast enough to matter, and they don't want to waste the time having to take a tank down (who is running really fast with charge) when they could be out capturing shrines or engaging a larger group. Seeing a lone ele run past invokes the “oooh kill it” reaction and there isn't much a primary ele can do to stop a group of 3-4 from taking them down, as they will actually chase you. And if you have the build you mentioned, even if you are the ultimate gamer and can actully turn around and take down the PC team, it's still going to take a long time to take them down, and the points you scored for taken down 4 PCs in that time doesn't come close to the points you would have, had you by passed them and taken a shrine.

Livingston

Dark Tykane · Aug 10, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Funny stuff
I think Warrior is the most practical class for Alliance Battles. It has mobility which is key for capping sped skills are awesome for running across the map. It also has enough armor to solo ranger shrines and easily solos any mesmer shrines quickly. Its fast pace you can run from a fight if you see the odds are against.

Basically soloability and mobility are key to me as i know there are idiots who like to fight an unending battle instead of capping.

This is why MM is unpractical for AB.
The right SS build can own AB though.
So I would say warrior, monks, and necros are cool.

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

Basically soloability and mobility are key to me as i know there are idiots who like to fight an unending battle instead of capping.

This is why MM is unpractical for AB.

One use I have found for MMs in AB is to have them go into the middle and be the fodder for the guys on the other side who like to fight that unending battle in the middle, which leaves the rest of us to go and cap shrines.

Livingston

milias · Aug 10, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

This build is specifically made to solo take a shrine, so of course I’m looking for undefended shrines, but I never have problems finding 2-3 at any given time. Due to the nature of the battle and being stuck with 2 teams that you don't get to pick, there is very little organization between the three teams on your side, so no is every guarding all the shrines, and even if there were enough organization, it would be impossible for 3 teams of 4 to effectively guard seven shrines, as one team of four on the other side would simply sweep through and take them one by one.

This is an interesting tactic. But normally, aren't you advised to stay with your team? If you run off on your own, wouldn't it put your 4-man team at a disadvantage? I don't know how exactly this strategy works, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

This is an interesting tactic. But normally, aren't you advised to stay with your team? If you run off on your own, wouldn't it put your 4-man team at a disadvantage? I don't know how exactly this strategy works, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's only effective if you are working in a cap team. You will often hear people in the waiting area calling out “forming cap team need x more.” Cap teams try to capture as many shrines as they can while avoiding conflict unless they absolutely have to engage. As that's the case a 3-man team can easily take a shrine themselves. They are sometimes at a disadvantage if they do have to engage PCs, but since it's not often that they do (and only sometimes that they are disadvantaged), the advantage of having one of the team members capturing other shrines in the mean time more than out weighs not having a 4th member with them. And I say that they are only sometimes at a disadvantage, because it is so easy to lose your team as is, due to the nature of AB. If you die you get rezed to a random location between your base and either one or two different rez shrines. Often by the time you get back to the place you died your team is no longer there or someone else has died as well. So by the middle of the battle even if you are trying to stick to a group, it’ll usually be a mixture of players from the other two groups that are on your team. It would be possible to simply communicate with your team members to figure out where you need to be, but it ends up not being worth it with the typing time and idiots who won't respond, and the fact that members from other teams will join them as well, so if you don’t find the nearest group you end up having a couple of teams with two members each while their other members are trying to find them and they probably won’t be good enough to take a shrine, yet still think they can engage a group of four PCs and they get wiped. Murphy’s Law says that in AB the last two members in your team up will probably be the worst players.

So basically everyone gets mixed up anyway. I usually stay with my team for the initial charge as we need to get the first shrines up as quickly as possible. Then I help take down the first group we come by, other wise they will simply take the shrine we just took and continue to capture the ones that our side got to first and thus it becomes a race in which the only time you would have the advantage is if its on your turf. If we take down that first team (which means they are having to waste time rezing while we are taking more shrines) then we run to the next shrine, my teammates start taking it and I continue to the next one. My teammates then continue to the nearest one after mine, and we continue the chain until we get cornered and defeated, then each person joins whatever group happens by after they rez and continue to try to take shrines with them, while I continue taking shrines on my own.

More often than not each side will eventually form two big teams, rather than 3 small teams, as I guess they feel safer with numbers and everyone will run to the nearest shrine that needs captured, which will often bring two smaller teams to the same one. This actually works rather well for me being there as well, as unless we are getting owned, there will only be 3-4 shrines to take. If the two big teams are taking a shrine each and I am taking another, then we are either dominating, or we just turned the tides, as usually the other team will be in two large groups as well. There are also times where everyone’s simply scattered all over the place, but not much can be done in those situations, and it’s still a good thing that I’m out taking shrines.

If we get wiped in that first encounter our deaths will be staggered and thus unless we all wait at base for the whole team to come through, which wastes too much time, then we’re split up anyway. So

Now if all teams were cap teams, you would then have a problem as the side that owned the battlefield would have a big advantage. I’m not sure if me being on my own would be better or worse in that case, but I’ve never seen that situation happen.

Livingston

Livingston · Aug 11, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

It's weird. The front page keeps saying the last post was made by milias, even though I made one after...

Livingston

Dark Tykane · Aug 11, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

One use I have found for MMs in AB is to have them go into the middle and be the fodder for the guys on the other side who like to fight that unending battle in the middle, which leaves the rest of us to go and cap shrines.

Livingston

Eh its all opinions I guess I still say warrior and ranger are cool for the mobility. And necros are cool to counter all the rangers and warriors.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 11, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

And thus, creativity emerges in a crude, rough formation. Ugly to both the eye and the hand, it is seemingly useless and criticized by all. Those who gazed beyond the rough exterior found a diamond on the inside, as priceless as life itself.

perhaps this one works a bit better...

A seed planted is a seed worth its while, that is, if in a while, it becomes a seed no more. Instead, a tree shall take its place, steadfast amoung the forest of green and surely just as worthy.

What im getting at is the creativity here is what eventually takes over the halls. Who knows what this build could turn into. Keep up the creativity. We need less cookie cutter and more... ahh whatever. Less Cookie Cutter Ftw!

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 11, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

And thus, creativity emerges in a crude, rough formation. Ugly to both the eye and the hand, it is seemingly useless and criticized by all. Those who gazed beyond the rough exterior found a diamond on the inside, as priceless as life itself.

perhaps this one works a bit better...

A seed planted is a seed worth its while, that is, if in a while, it becomes a seed no more. Instead, a tree shall take its place, steadfast amoung the forest of green and surely just as worthy.

What im getting at is the creativity here is what eventually takes over the halls. Who knows what this build could turn into. Keep up the creativity. We need less cookie cutter and more... ahh whatever. Less Cookie Cutter Ftw!

while were at being "creative", lets turn all monks into w/mo, they can take more damage, and plus they can sneak heal, that will replace all monks in hoh with, lets also have all the mesmers be w/me, casting diversion and using their energy pool with bonetti and flourish to gain ultimate energy.

haiku or poem that might work better

poison ivy grows on a tree, the poison ivy disguises as a flower, poison ivy gets killed by a gardener because its poison ivy and it doesnt need to be a flower because it causes rash

warriors, are the most damage output class in the game, i know other classes like assassin, maybe ele, mesmer, or necro, can do more damage at one time, but a warrior can spike with his damage too, but he can maintain a constant damage using his weapon, and adrenaline skills, this to me seems like a meleemancer, necro tryn to do tanking but doesnt have the armor, or damage to be as effective as a tank,

and the point im getting at is this, tanks already absorb more damage then most professions, and can already output more damage if they wanted to then the other professions, they dont need to use any other methods to do this effectively, they already do it their own way, not casting spells, that imo is why this wont work

Livingston · Aug 11, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaero Gouki Kriegor

warriors, are the most damage output class in the game, i know other classes like assassin, maybe ele, mesmer, or necro, can do more damage at one time, but a warrior can spike with his damage too, but he can maintain a constant damage using his weapon, and adrenaline skills, this to me seems like a meleemancer, necro tryn to do tanking but doesnt have the armor, or damage to be as effective as a tank,

and the point im getting at is this, tanks already absorb more damage then most professions, and can already output more damage if they wanted to then the other professions, they dont need to use any other methods to do this effectively, they already do it their own way, not casting spells, that imo is why this wont work

I see absolutely nothing in this post that has anything to do with the purpose of my build, or anything that I haven’t already addressed. Are you talking about something else perhaps?

And your opinion of it not working has absolutely no bearing on the "fact" that it does work, and you haven’t said anything specific to show why it wouldn’t. All you have done is spouted generalities that are mostly true for warriors in situations outside AB conflicts. As I have with other people, I must ask, have you actually participated in AB. Do you know what the point of the matches is? Do you win often? If you said yes then you should have a perfect understanding of how and why thus build works.

Regular warriors do have better damage output, but only over an extended period of time. They can spike, but these spikes only affect one target, or mainly one target, with a little output directed at others, in the case of Axe builds. A warrior using my build can do one spike and take down the entire shrine. This is why it is better than a straight warrior for this purpose. While a straight warrior has no down time between spikes, taking a shrine in and of it self forces you to have down time, and enough down time to recharge my build, thus my build has no effective downtime either and takes the shrine faster than a warrior can. In AB fast shrine capture = more points = FTW

Livingston